Foro de Armas.es

Buenas tardes a todos.
He adquirido recientemente un visor Visionking 10-40x56 para usar con un Cetme C.
Me encuentro con el problema con que las instrucciones son en inglés, yo soy de francés y si lo paso por el traductor de Google me sale algo parecido a una receta de cocina o qué sé yo. Mezcla yardas con metros como si no hubiese un mañana.
Iba a tratar de poneros una imagen de la retícula por si podéis orientarme, pero si pongo el enlace al visor las podréis ver a tamaño óptimo.

Se agradece la ayuda si alguien ha usado este tipo de retícula con doble cruceta y doble escalímetro y me da alguna indicación práctica.

Gracias

https://es.aliexpress.com/item/Visionking-10-40x56-Side-Focus-35-MM-tube-rifle-scope-Long-Range-308-338-50-Cal/32469120764.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.3da263c08TrtkU

Si tu eres capaz de colgar aquí las instrucciones en francés, puede que yo sea capaz de traducirlas.

Si las tuviese en francés ya las hubiese traducido yo.
Gracias

Pues ponlas en inglés y a ver qué se puede hacer

A mi siempre me ha sorprendido que los niños franceses sepan hablar frances desde pequeñitos

A ver, es un visor , por lo que mucho misterio no tiene, y aunque las instrucciones hubieran venido en un perfecto frances, no te esperes mucha claridad de un chinoscopio de segunda, por lo tanto tendras que investigar un poco
Lo primero es saber que corrección por click tiene, eso lo podras ver en las torretas, si es 1/10 estaran en mils y si es 1/4 o 1/8 estará en moas
Una vez que ya sabes en que medida corrigen las torreras viene lo mas complicado, saber en que medida esta la cruceta, para eso necesitarás un carton o un papel, o mejor un blanco dado la vuelta
En la parte izquierda pones una raya, mides 10 centimetros, pones otra raya, otros 10 centimetros, y asi 4 o 5 rayas, y en la esquina derecha, misma raya, pero cada 2.9 centimetros
Colocas el blanco a 100 metros y te pones a observar el blanco con el visor a minimos aumentos, si es en primer plano focal, enseguida una de las dos rayas estara perfectamente alineada con una de las marcas que has hecho, si es en segundo plano focal tendrás que ir subiendo aumentos hasta que veas que las marcas de tu visor y de uno de los grupos de marcas coinciden correctamente, para comprobarlo tendras que subir medidas completas del visor, ya sea un mil o un moa y veras como coinciden
En teoría tanto la torreta como la cruceta tienen que estar en la misma medida pero puede darse el caso de que las torretas esten en mils, y la cruceta en moas

Yvan5 escribió:Pues ponlas en inglés y a ver qué se puede hacer

THE OPERATING GUIDE - TACTICAL MILITARY MILDOT-RETICLE(TMMR)
OPERATING GUIDE FOR UTILIZING THE HORIZONTAL/VERTICAL INCLINATION
DECLINATION AND MOTION RANGING SYSTEMS.
TMMR Reticle not only offers advantages of the double point of impact Mil-Dot grids, but
includes separate measuring stadia for the purposes of rapidly acquiring range info on big objects
and great distances. Both the vertical scale on the left side of the cross-hairs and the
horizontal/vertical scales on the upper right quadrant allow for calculations in either English or
Metric systems.
Ranging and doing the math of the Mil-dot system is complicated, particularly under the duress of
battle. These other ranging systems can help immensely.
LEFT Side Vertical Ranging Grid
1. The horizontal stadia on both the left and upper right quadrant are numerical correspondents of
the Mil-dot Grid.
2. At 1000 yards, each four lines equals 1 yard (35.3 inches specifically, but inclusive of the
thickness of the lines it reads exactly 1 yard). These numbers run 0, 4, 8, 12, 16, 20 etc. At 1000
yards a reading of 16 covers a distance of 4 yards. For English calculations in yards use the left
side numbers. Each line represents 1 quarter mil. At 100 yards, the distance for every 4 stadia is
3.53 inches, but inclusive of line thickness it can be read at 3.6 inches, exactly 1 tenth of a yard. At
500 yards, four lines equals 1 half yard (17.67” inches, but 18” including line width). At 1000
yards, an elk, 6 feet at the head, would be 8 lines high-corresponding to two mils of the center grid.
At 1000 yards the shoulder through chest area, roughly 36” would be 4 lines high-corresponding
to 1 mil. The simple beauty of the TMMR System is that once you have the range in easy numbers,
your holdover (for your chosen barrel length and load) can also be referenced numerically. For
each distance, you can calculate the distance in numbers and correspond to the mil-dot grids in the
crosshairs. If you have a holdover of 72 inches, simply pull up two full dots and you will have the
equivalent of 72 inches of bullet drop at 1000 yards. Please note that bullet drop is barrel and load
specific and the drop is logarithmic, not linear. A flat shooting magnum load may only drop 3
inches in the first 300 yards, but will drop 12 inches over the distance from 300 to 600 and an
additional 24 inches over 300 to nine hundred. Bullet drop compensators that are not specific the
weapon system and bullet weight and load wont give accurate points of aim at longer ranges on
anything other than specific load and barrel length. At 1000 yards each horizontal stadia equals 1
foot, inclusive of line thickness. Each English side stadia equals one quarter of a milliaradian.
3. The right side numbers equal meters, and they go 0, 5, 10, 15, 20... For metric calculations use
this scale, as each 5 stadia equal 1 meter at 1000 yards, 1 half meter at 500 meters and 1 tenth
meter at 100 meters. This allows for sportsman or those with military background or ranging
equipment to use the same optic without converting. The mil dot system stays the same, but the
operator can range in either yards or meters. It is important to note that while the Left Side Vertical
Ranging Index offers distance measuring in both yards and meters, the mil-dot grid follows the

Army Standard mil-dot system. Metric shooters should convert their meter measurements to yards
when utilizing the TMMR reticle. 100 Meters equals 109.36 yards. Simply multiply the meter
distance by 10 percent and you will still be within a range of 9.3 yards at 1000 yards, a negligible
effect on accuracy, without worrying about the decimals.
DETERMINING INCLINATION/DECLINATION IN RELEVANCE TO TARGET UTILIZING
THE TMMR VERTICAL RANGING SCALE
For Determining Inclination/Declination in relevance to ones target, the same absolute scales as
above apply. The left side ranging stadia is used for an absolute above/below reading off the center
cross hair - how high a target is above or below the shooters horizontal shooting plane. If the
shooter is elevated, simply hold the scope horizontal and perpendicular (at 90 degrees) to the
earth-if your target is above or below, the leftward vertical ranging strata will give you the above
or below reading of your target (of course, ranged for the appropriate distance). With a known
power on the optic, weapon specific tables can be established for proper inclination/declination.
How high above or below the shooter is relative to his target is a critical factor in elevation
settings. The human body has a remarkable ability to determine level center. Our inner ears
provide the balance that keeps us perpetually upright and allows remarkable ability to level a
weapon with the horizon. Visually ranging distance is an order of magnitude more difficult as the
closeness together of our eyes makes estimating ranges beyond 50 yards a skill which must be
acquired.
To use the Inclination/Declination function of the TMMR reticle in an open field, align the
weapon so the barrel is parallel to level ground. Even if you are position on an incline, your sense
of balance will allow you to hold the rifle at 90 degrees to a straight vertical plane. If your hide
allows, sweep the weapon so that the Left Side Vertical Ranging Scale can be seen in same sight
picture as the target. If the target distance is 1000 yards, each stadia represents 9 inches, up to the
27 yard range (at 1000 feet) of the scale. For greater heights you can “stack” the LSVRS by
finding a point on the target plane and then holding over again from there. The Key to accurate
shot placement when engaging targets above or below you is to understand gravity. When
shooting up hill you must aim above normal. When shooting downhill, you must aim lower on the
target.
Again, bullet, barrel and distance dependent!
UTILIZING HORIZONTAL/VERTICAL STADIA IN THE UPPER RIGHT LARGE
OBJECT/MOTION INTERDICTION QUAD (LOMR-QUAD,ARMY VARIANT) OF THE
TMMR-DI RETICLE.
With the horizontal/vertical stadia in the upper right, Large Object/Motion Ranging and
Interdiction Quad (LOMR-QUAD, Army Variant) the shooter can instantly grab a distance read on
larger objects of known size and get a distance range accordingly. You will get far greater reads of
accuracy calculating the measurement of a known size aircraft or truck sitting on a runway than
you will trying to range off a mechanic at 1000 or greater meters. This was brought on by the
deployment of 30mm extreme range-large target sniping systems, which would allow small teams

with elevation advantages to deny vehicle motion from ranges as far as 6 kilometers away.
The Vertical Scale on the LOMR-QUAD, Army Variant is exactly the same in measurement and
ranging operation as the Left Side Vertical Ranging Scale. At 1000 yards, each four lines equals 1
yard (35.3 inches specifically, but inclusive of the thickness of the lines it will read exactly 1 yard).
These numbers run 0, 4, 8, 12, 16, 20 etc on the left side of the left scale. At 1000 yards a reading
of 16 covers a distance of 4 yards. For English calculations in yards use the left side numbers.
Each space represents 1 quarter mil. At 100 yards, the distance for every 4 stadia is 3.53 inches,
but inclusive of line thickness it can be read at 3.6 inches exactly 1 tenth of a yard. At 500 yards,
four lines equals 1 half yard (17.67” inches, but 18” including line width). At 1000 yards, an elk, 6
feet at the head, would be 8 lines high-corresponding to two mils of the centergrid. At 1000 yards
the shoulder through chest area, roughly 36” would be 4 lines highcorresponding to 1 mil.
The right side numbers (on the left vertical ranging scale) equal meters, and they go 0, 5, 10, 15,
20... For metric calculations, use this scale, as each 5 stadia equal 1 meter at 1000 yards, 1 half
meter at 500 meters and 1 tenth meter at 100 meters. This allows for sportsman or those with
military backgrounds or ranging equipment to use the same optic without converting. The mil dot
system stays the same, but the operator can range in either yards or meters.
The Horizontal Scale of the LOMR-QUAD, Army Variant uses exactly the same measuring scale
as the Vertical Scale, but in the horizontal plane. For ranging large objects such as standard large
frame late model pick-up truck, if you have only a partial view range off the height of the vehicle.
If you have a full front or side view, range off the view that gives you the biggest sight picture for
greatest accuracy. Simply place the closest corner of the vehicle or what you can see of it at the
intersection of the LOMI-QUAD grid. A pick-up truck that is six feet tall at 1000 yards will be 8
stadia markings high. If you have a front view, a six foot wide pick-up at a thousand yards will be
8 stadia markings wide. If you have a side view of the truck at 12 feet long, at 1000 yards if will
be 16 stadia markings wide. (Multiply meters by 10% if using metric to give you the readings in
yards.) Correspondingly, if that pick up truck appears 16 stadia markings high it is 500 yards away,
and so on.

DETERMINING SPEED OF MOVING TARGETS WITH THE TMMR-DI LOMR MOTION
RANGING AND INTERDICTION QUAD
Please Note; Scales related to the interdiction of moving vehicles are considered to be an
exclusively non-sporting application under the International Traffic in Arms Act. The information
below is intended for sporting purposes only for game animals at a walk, trot or run. Details on
military applications can only be released on Defense Dept request. These applications involve
vehicles or aircraft who are moving generally towards a shooter where the increase in size over
time would allow snipers the proper lead.
For Sporting Applications, the Horizontal Scale fills yet another function as a speed gage for
moving targets. Simply put, at slow walking speed about 2 feet per second, the animal would cross
the range of the Horizontal Scale in 13.5 seconds To measure the speed, put the scope viewpoint at
one end of the Horizontal Motion Scale on the animal as it enters your view and hold steady as the

animal walks across the length of the grid. To cover the 9 horizontal yards would take 13.5
seconds. A stopwatch is helpful, but you can get close by counting“1, one thousand, 2 one
thousand,3 one thousand, etc.” At 500 yards a walking animal will cover the distance in the
horizontal scale in 6.75 seconds. A trotting game animal will increase these speeds by a factor of
two. Determining how much “lead” is a factor of bullet weight, but this horizontal scale is useful
in getting a sense of the targets speed, particularly on treeless planes, grass lands, desert, etc.
With the TMMR equipped optic, the shooter can spend an afternoon overlooking an airfield at
known distance and come away with a wealth of useful items to range from. If a person knows the
size of an F-18, and knows from his flash cards that enemy aircraft is x or y longer or shorter, he
can use those larger objects to range off and then engage individual enemy combatants amongst
the targets.
The optical pounding that optics are built to take on these 30mm guns is one of the reasons that
they have proven so reliable on .50 cal and .338 systems sniper deployed.

#Madredelamorhermoso

Bueno, pues te he enviado por privado una traducción aproximada.

Yo también soy de la generación del francés, pero como todo lo de armas se escribe en inglés he tenido que aprender algo. Claro que una cosa es el inglés de los hijos de la Gran Bretaña y otra una traducción "googlear" del chino, coreano o cualquier otro idioma, que creo que es de lo que se trata en este caso.

Quiero decir con eso que he hecho lo que he podido, pero ahora, con el visor al lado, te toca a ti pulirla y transformarla en algo útil.

Espero que te sirva. un saludo

Gracias.
Como habrás visto la traducción resulta bastante confusa pero creo que me las apañaré.

GRACIAS DE NUEVO

Y que mandais? Una traducción de google, de un oficinista chino que no sabe ni ingles ni de visores? Al francés y por privado para solo vosotros?, pues muchas gracias, supongo que si hay mas usuarios de esos chinoscopios estarán muy agradecidos con vosotros.

Manda huevos

Para el resto que se fijen en mi explicación, que si es pública, y les valdrá para ese y para el resto de los visores del mercado aunque no tengan las instrucciones o no sepan idiomas

No soy un hacha en inglés, pero para mí el problema no es la traducción (que con el inglés que sé ya me doy cuenta que el que lo ha redactado sabe menos que yo), es que da como algo sencillísimo que hagas conversiones y cálculos mentales de imperial a métrico como si eso fuera pan comido. Si estás en una galería y te has podido apuntar valores en una tabla, pues tómate el tiempo que necesites, pero si es un tocino que antes o después tendrás que cortar igual te pasa, te saluda y tú sigues dándole al cacumen a ver qué hago ¡Madre mía!
No sé si lo quieres para tiro, caza o ambas cosas, pero a mí, cazador, nunca me han gustado las retículas que supuestamente te ayudan a calcular. O tiras de telémetro o te haces una idea con el enfoque del paralaje. En un rececho o un aguardo puede que te dé tiempo. En otras modalidades intentas poner la cruz sobre el bicho (casi siempre en movimiento), aprietas el gatillo y allá que va. Poco más. Ya ni te cuento las que llevan corrección para viento.

Un saludo.

Pd. No entra en mi filosofía, pero después de leer a muchos (y con todos los respetos) sale más a cuenta el Elimiator ese de Bushnell (que por cierto ya se ve en 2ª mano a mil o menos) y te ahorras tol incensario y de paso El Cantar de los Cantares en hebreo o arameo.

Por lo que yo he entendido
En las escalas los números Impares son en metros,
Los números del lado derecho equivalen a metros, y van 0, 5, 10, 15, 20 ... Para cálculos métricos use esta escala, ya que cada 5 estadios equivalen a 100cm a 1000 metros, 50cm a 500 metros y 10 centimetros a 100 metros.
Lo que da 2 cm por rallita a 100m, 10 cm a 500m, y 20cm por 1000m.
Eso a lo ancho y alto.
Si estás tirando a un blanco de 100cm de diametro y el enfoque tiene que quedar entre el 0 y el 5 en altura y anchura, sabes que esta a 1000m.
Si ocupa del 0 al 10, estas a 500m
Lo que determina es saber el tamaño aproximado del blanco para pasarlo a escala y saber la distancia a la que tiras.
Si tiras a un bote de 20x10
La escala te queda de 0 a 10 de altura y de 0 a 5 de ancho sabes que estas a 100m

El truco es saber el tamaño aproximado y una calculadora para sacar las distancias
La retícula central está en mil dot, en pulgadas, varia un 10%aproximadamente a sumar al métrico, 100m son 109.36 yardas/ una yarda 35.3 pulgadas....

Para que tengas una orientación, espero haberlo entendido yo bien y saberme explicar, pero el camino se hace andando y el tirador tirando, cuando lo pilles haces los cálculos a ojo

He comprado el mismo visor y espero a recibirlo pronto.

Y ya en pulgadas igual ...pero más complicado para los que vamos en sistema metrico

Los numeros pares a la izquierda dela escala son en pulgadas
A 1000 yardas, cada cuatro líneas es igual a 1 yarda (35.3 pulgadas específicamente, pero incluye la
espesor de las líneas lee exactamente 1 yarda). Estos números corren 0, 4, 8, 12, 16, 20, etc. A 1000
yardas una lectura de 16 cubre una distancia de 4 yardas. Para cálculos en inglés en yardas, usa la izquierda.
números laterales Cada línea representa 1 cuarto de mil. A 100 yardas, la distancia por cada 4 estadios es
3.53 pulgadas, pero incluido el grosor de la línea, se puede leer a 3.6 pulgadas, exactamente 1 décima de yarda. A
500 yardas, cuatro líneas equivalen a 1 media yarda (17,67 "pulgadas, pero 18", incluido

Duplicado.

Hilario_ escribió:#Madredelamorhermoso

Acabo de comprar este visor para montar en un pcp, si os habéis aclarado bien explicar un poco, saludos.